#7 From Elevators to Digital Twins – Alessandro Pilone on Data-Driven Vertical Mobility

00:00:01: Welcome to lift and leaders the podcast by interlift and we explore people ideas and innovations Driving the elevator industry forward.

00:00:12: So my guest today has been part of this world for more than twenty five years or even exactly we're not really sure but we have to find out.

00:00:20: and Yeah, it's a field that never stands still and keeps reinventing how we move vertically every day.

00:00:28: So he's CEO and co founder of Skaño based in Turku Finland and it's a company on a mission to revolutionize vertical mobility.

00:00:40: So they are doing this by building a digital database called a digital twin of that building and that's connecting elevators with their owners and all across Europe.

00:00:54: And it helps to see their needs and to open new opportunities to the market and to manufacturers.

00:01:01: So I'm really looking forward to this conversation.

00:01:04: Please welcome Alessandro Piloni here at the Lift and Leaders podcast.

00:01:09: Hi, how are you?

00:01:10: Hi, thank you.

00:01:11: Thank you for the great introduction.

00:01:13: Really pleased with that.

00:01:14: You're welcome.

00:01:16: Great job.

00:01:17: Thank you.

00:01:18: Alessandro, I just mentioned you have been part or yeah just a leader within that industry right now for more than twenty five years.

00:01:29: so how did it all begin for you?

00:01:33: when

00:01:33: you go back?

00:01:34: That's that's bring me back

00:01:36: yeah in the two thousands two thousand and two

00:01:40: ninety nine ninety nine.

00:01:41: I started in ninety nine so it's We can say that it's sharp

00:01:45: to the millennium.

00:01:46: Yes, sharp to the

00:01:46: millennium.

00:01:48: I started as a designer, engineer.

00:01:52: I started in Cone, based in Italy.

00:01:56: And then since then I've been working for Cone research and development for more than two decades all over the world.

00:02:10: being China, Europe, Finland and the US.

00:02:16: So, yeah.

00:02:17: And then after twenty-five years, then I took a bold decision to step out from that world, stay in the elevator, stay in the world, but then do something which is we think and assume and believe that will take the industry then to the next level.

00:02:39: Yeah, you have a new approach.

00:02:41: You go very, very digital into that industry.

00:02:45: And so what brought you to this or what fascinated you the most when you started with the digitalization of the elevator industry?

00:02:57: When I was working in the elevator, especially in the UK, in the front line, I had two problems.

00:03:06: The first one was skills.

00:03:09: Then I'm talking about five, six years ago, even more, finding new generation coming up and make them interesting in lifts and already have some knowledge about lifts.

00:03:23: that it was very challenging already at that time and now is even more.

00:03:29: And the second challenge, You know problem that we were facing is that to do certain type of a particular task like modernization You need to be skilled Mm-hmm.

00:03:40: So the weather to probably they were colliding with each other and at that time I was counting some new technology were coming up and especially in the construction and the smart cities and those two new coming Streams.

00:03:58: then we were looking at this way of building more capacity and then, you know, bringing more skills into the elevators.

00:04:11: And that after five years, I said, okay, now it's time.

00:04:16: I'll try this and see if you can make it work.

00:04:22: And so far, it's been a very, very, very good and very hard journey.

00:04:32: Okay, so when did you actually found Scania?

00:04:36: Scania was founded in September, twenty

00:04:40: twenty-three.

00:04:40: Oh, okay.

00:04:41: It's so young.

00:04:42: You're a starter.

00:04:43: We are not even a toddler.

00:04:44: As a company.

00:04:46: We are two years, actually, two years

00:04:52: young.

00:04:54: Young within the

00:04:56: industry.

00:05:00: From

00:05:00: the founding days until now, what happened during that development?

00:05:07: It was a high opening the first four or five months.

00:05:12: It was a kind of control chaos.

00:05:19: And now after the six months first six months, then it becomes more reality.

00:05:24: So we started to see and Test with our hands.

00:05:27: Okay.

00:05:28: This my work.

00:05:29: Mm-hmm.

00:05:30: Then we started to do some Few step forward few pilots few things.

00:05:35: I started to be more rewarding and then we ended up now where we are now that we have few clients.

00:05:40: we are operating in the UK in France in Finland and we are getting a lot of attention and interest as we are new for the elevator industry.

00:05:53: so we know that this takes a bit time to digest and be received.

00:05:59: we see possible and now we see that we have something okay which that is a rewarding part.

00:06:06: yes

00:06:07: okay.

00:06:08: so let's talk about Scania because What, how would you describe the core idea behind Scannio in your own words?

00:06:18: What is it about?

00:06:19: It's about the way that we, the city's buildings are aging all the time.

00:06:28: And if we think about, twenty, twenty five years ago, the amount of buildings and the amount of lifts in the building, it's exponentially increased till today.

00:06:38: So there are a lot of old buildings, there are a lot of old elevators in those buildings.

00:06:47: In order to capitalise with innovation and the needs of maintaining material, re-utilising material, be more green or go to that direction, it's not enough what we were doing before, we need something more.

00:07:07: push that's with Scania way of constructing and digitalize the elevator of the parts then we are able also to enhance the possibility of okay I would like to reutilize this.

00:07:21: what type of material is there can I recycle can I?

00:07:24: and that can be done digitally first so then it can be planned and done faster and in more sustainable way.

00:07:34: So it was an open data source.

00:07:36: you connected to or you went to any capital, any city and said, okay, I have to get to the data, to all of the buildings and the facilities over there.

00:07:46: How did you start?

00:07:48: That was the first challenge that we faced.

00:07:50: Is there anything out?

00:07:51: Yeah, what kind of data did

00:07:52: you find?

00:07:54: None.

00:07:55: Because the construction industry and all around, you know, what is around the elevator is... When building is old, documents are old as well and you kind of find them old.

00:08:10: They're difficult or they're not actually reflecting the reality because the building may have changed.

00:08:16: They may have done renovation, anything.

00:08:18: so.

00:08:20: And that's where we were stuck.

00:08:21: We said, how do we gather data?

00:08:24: And that's where we started to gather data ourselves.

00:08:27: So then we saw that as, okay, now this, okay, this seems to be interesting.

00:08:33: So we can even... Now train and teach other people how to gather that.

00:08:39: Then we process it so they can be delivered to us.

00:08:43: So that we speed up the scale.

00:08:45: So that's where we start.

00:08:46: So we actually started to go inside each

00:08:50: building.

00:08:51: I

00:08:51: started in Turku a few buildings as a prototype.

00:08:55: And then now we have done millennium building in Wimbledon.

00:09:03: A and G building in central London, France, we have done a lot of residential, so yeah.

00:09:12: So from the prototype to a nice small city on the west coast of Finland, they're now abroad.

00:09:19: So the base where two D plans or three D models of the buildings are really started from

00:09:26: the ground, from zero.

00:09:29: We decided that we can't, we built it from... Our set.

00:09:33: Okay.

00:09:34: So our methods is pretty straightforward.

00:09:36: So

00:09:36: you were surveying yourself?

00:09:38: Yes.

00:09:38: So

00:09:39: we do digital survey.

00:09:40: Okay.

00:09:41: So we kind of do digitalize what's in there.

00:09:46: And then we transfer that information as a digital model, digital twin, big model and the two D. and this industry, the elevator industry still works predominantly in two D. So it's fine.

00:09:59: We can provide that.

00:10:00: But what we would like to do gradually move them into a smart city, into a digital twin world, which is not being its digital element.

00:10:14: So one element is the digital survey.

00:10:18: Am I correct?

00:10:19: So the other thing is does this technology then help to improve safety maintenance or even things like speed or quality components.

00:10:28: or how does it go on from the model to reality

00:10:33: use?

00:10:33: Yes, so how helps in various aspects or various layer of the data.

00:10:40: We collect a lot of data and out of those data for example we are now applying machine learning and AI on top which recognized the material of the shaft to recognize the components inside and then from there we can directly target spare parts the status.

00:11:00: so we can then start to think about inspection, virtual inspection or partially virtual inspection.

00:11:07: now I'm going far where the industry is but that's I think where we should go.

00:11:14: so then You actually, it's not any more kind of remote maintenance, but then you start to know exactly, okay, there is a part of this city which needs renovations, so how do we plan it?

00:11:27: What type of components?

00:11:28: How do we do things?

00:11:30: And all of that can be done first, you see Dali?

00:11:36: So you don't actually have to spend resources and make mistakes out of that.

00:11:41: And then, so it's sustainable way.

00:11:44: And then you can assess also your impact.

00:11:47: For example, if you want to keep some components inside or not.

00:11:50: So you can digitally replace any component and see, okay, does it work better?

00:11:55: The simulation will show this.

00:11:59: So the model will run and say, okay, it's quicker, it's more efficient, it's more reliable.

00:12:06: Yeah, correct.

00:12:07: This is one.

00:12:08: The other way is if you want to approach sustainability, then you say, okay, what is reuse?

00:12:13: What is recycle?

00:12:14: What is remanufacturing?

00:12:16: And then, you know, with that you can, we can classify, okay, you have piece of steel inside, guide rest.

00:12:23: Can I reuse them?

00:12:24: Yes or no?

00:12:25: Can I use the fixings?

00:12:27: Can I recycle some materials?

00:12:31: And that can be done directly from there.

00:12:34: Cool.

00:12:34: So this is the actual situation.

00:12:36: So what will be next?

00:12:38: You also mentioned integrating more AI models, something like that.

00:12:41: What will be next?

00:12:44: We are actually already testing some of the models to optimize and speed up the generation of those twins, where AI plays a role in identification and classification.

00:13:02: Next step of that is understanding what is that and the condition of that.

00:13:10: and then I think the further the last steps that we are thinking is that okay how about if you start to have partners that they have monitoring or that some other things that can be attached to our platform?

00:13:23: so then you know it's just integration with partners in the industry and that becomes then something.

00:13:32: So how huge is SCANU?

00:13:34: How many employees do we have?

00:13:35: Or is it just collaboration with other agencies or consultants?

00:13:39: No,

00:13:40: we started two, me and the co-founder.

00:13:45: One of the co-founder now, the other co-founder now.

00:13:50: One is here.

00:13:52: The other one stepped down a bit due to other things.

00:13:56: So we now scaled a bit up the company.

00:13:59: We are now four.

00:14:04: And next year we are planning to grow as well following what we are planning to also for sales and possible investments.

00:14:14: What interesting projects will be next?

00:14:16: You just mentioned a few buildings.

00:14:18: Would you start it?

00:14:20: Is there anything else that will follow?

00:14:22: Yeah, we have a couple of buildings as well planned by end of the month.

00:14:27: But one interesting one, which was out of the blue, it could be a water tower in the UK, in London.

00:14:37: So interesting, because it will be particular.

00:14:41: It's old.

00:14:43: water tower that is not used anymore.

00:14:46: So I think they are going to reutilize that in something else.

00:14:51: And then we have something that could be done in an iconic building still in central London, which is the Parliament House.

00:15:02: Let's see.

00:15:03: Those are to be... We still cross our fingers that they come through.

00:15:11: That's what we look.

00:15:14: We can do anything from residential to this high-end particular special gems in cities.

00:15:24: So we're not bound of it needs to be a nice building.

00:15:28: We go from low to high.

00:15:32: So when we again look at the biggest challenges when it comes to digitalization of elevators and maintenance, What are the biggest challenges you are facing?

00:15:43: That's a very good question.

00:15:47: I have to pick one.

00:15:48: I have several.

00:15:55: If I look at the commercial, the challenge is how to scale up fast.

00:16:04: That's the challenge.

00:16:07: We look how to do this fast and we would like to test as well few metals with our first customers.

00:16:15: If I look more technical or the digital to inside is more getting the industry Coming along Getting rid of this Working on this plane to the whole kind of the way and then start to embrace more you know kind of more risks and try to utilize more between type of way to work around the elevator.

00:16:43: That's the thing could be.

00:16:45: The second one is, I think is more challenging than the first one, because the first one is just to find the right pieces of the puzzle to put together and then go.

00:16:58: The second one is more, is more a change of way of working, which is... which is harder.

00:17:09: So you believe in the future of the three-D twins?

00:17:13: Yeah,

00:17:13: I believe that the industry will go there.

00:17:17: How long does it take?

00:17:18: And that's the challenge.

00:17:22: They're

00:17:22: just in the middle of it.

00:17:24: Yeah, we are in the middle.

00:17:27: We had just started, you know, only two years in September actually, not long ago.

00:17:34: And we would like to be partners with all the industries, from elevator companies to consultants to construction companies, with everyone that would like to go to that direction.

00:17:51: Yeah, cool, that's interesting.

00:17:54: If you look further ahead, how might the elevator industry look in, let's say, ten years?

00:18:04: or even twenty, look even further.

00:18:06: Yeah, okay, twenty years from now.

00:18:11: Twenty years up, I really would see that it's really integrated into the smart cities part, which if you go now and check what smart cities are what, things are happening there or any of those type of... kind of further, further planning, they are very ahead.

00:18:37: You can do really big things now.

00:18:41: So that's what I'm expecting.

00:18:42: So they get more integrated, more, more, you know, more insights

00:18:49: integrated,

00:18:51: you know, be again kind of a separate, you know, small child there, but then kind of be really, really together.

00:19:00: I hope before the twenty years, So basically means that we are also done a good job.

00:19:08: What do you think or what was to you most inspiring from the elevator industry within the last?

00:19:14: Twenty years.

00:19:15: what inspired you the most?

00:19:17: even I mean you found it.

00:19:19: so there has to be something that really inspired you for doing what you do right now.

00:19:24: I'm an engineer in the background.

00:19:26: so technical stuff and you know complex.

00:19:30: I'm an electronic engineer by study.

00:19:37: So always fancy to play with things.

00:19:42: And when I joined the elevators, I played with big things.

00:19:46: So that was very, very interesting.

00:19:48: And that kept me going and got more into that.

00:19:52: I didn't know before that there is a complexity.

00:19:55: I mean, it's a complex piece of machine.

00:19:59: And then how that... becomes real, safeties, regulations, all of that.

00:20:06: That was attractive me around lifts.

00:20:10: And also, it's a need for people.

00:20:15: If you, many times, also in this role, when we go to building and you don't have accessibility, all these kind of things, it's painful for the people that live there.

00:20:27: And we have more and more old, kind of side of population.

00:20:33: So you need accessibility, you need distance.

00:20:36: Kind of helping that is good.

00:20:40: And if you go out on a dinner with friends and they ask, how is that lift industry, elevator industry you're working in, how would you describe it in a sentence or three words to them?

00:20:52: To anybody who does not know what you're doing?

00:20:55: How would you describe that?

00:20:58: I would describe it as conservative.

00:21:00: still it's a. it's a fit with very good talented engineer and people and it gives.

00:21:17: I think if you are a technical person if you have that side then it's it's a reward.

00:21:23: yes

00:21:24: Cool.

00:21:25: Is there anything else that we have to know about Skanyo?

00:21:28: Besides, we didn't talk about Turku.

00:21:31: The place where you're sitting.

00:21:32: Yes.

00:21:32: What is it?

00:21:33: How is it living there?

00:21:34: We don't know anything about Finland and Turku.

00:21:37: Have you been in Finland?

00:21:38: No, no.

00:21:38: But I learned yesterday, not yesterday, when I had to do my research for this... podcast episode.

00:21:48: I was looking for the word elevator in several languages and I found out in Finland you say Hissy.

00:21:53: Hissy.

00:21:54: Hissy.

00:21:55: That's so cute because in other languages it's elevator, ascenseur, aufzuk, Chinese, D&T.

00:22:02: But Hissy, I mean how cute is it?

00:22:04: Could even be a puppy or a kitty.

00:22:08: You have, I think, this is, I learned something now that it can be taken in this way.

00:22:13: So I always You know, I'm working for Cone.

00:22:16: I've been in Finland.

00:22:17: So many times.

00:22:18: for me it's kind of a normal word.

00:22:22: But yeah, Turku, it's a nice city.

00:22:26: How huge?

00:22:26: How many inhabitants?

00:22:31: No, it's not big.

00:22:31: I think it's a couple of hundred thousand.

00:22:33: I'm not really sure now.

00:22:34: I hope I didn't say anything completely wrong.

00:22:37: And you have an Italian talking about the Finnish city.

00:22:41: So that's interesting.

00:22:44: It's on the west one hundred fifty kilometer from Helsinki, which is the capital.

00:22:50: It's on the archipelago towards Sweden.

00:22:53: So in the summer is lovely.

00:22:54: It's beautiful.

00:22:55: There's a river going through.

00:22:57: So you have the two banks Full of people.

00:23:01: then you go to the archipelago Take a small boat or their ferries go around.

00:23:06: It's very nice Of course to be that summery type of city and touristic city.

00:23:12: then in the winter is more calm But it's also more

00:23:16: loveable.

00:23:17: Snow?

00:23:19: Or it's even warm

00:23:20: near the coast.

00:23:21: Yeah, we get some, we get some.

00:23:23: No, everyone is supposed to know about Christmas.

00:23:28: Most of the time we don't get so much snow.

00:23:31: Christmas, we get snow after.

00:23:34: Is it a smart city?

00:23:36: Is it very digitalized?

00:23:38: They actually they do quite much as a city.

00:23:42: They have they provide a lot of digital information from the buildings from the city council.

00:23:49: They have a lot of integration with services like transportation Public transportation and other things.

00:23:57: I think from that They are they are doing well.

00:24:02: They are kind of.

00:24:05: They have a good progress in smart cities and things like that.

00:24:09: We use their information, for example, to build our map for Finland.

00:24:14: And they have digitalized all their buildings.

00:24:17: We can see all their buildings.

00:24:19: Yeah.

00:24:20: I think they are doing good in that direction.

00:24:24: Which city do you think is one of the best smart cities or most digitalized cities in Europe?

00:24:32: So I don't know, Hamburg in Germany, I know Hamburg is very far into the generalization.

00:24:36: They have to speed the city model and so on.

00:24:39: They do a lot.

00:24:41: But I'm not sure, is it London?

00:24:44: I don't, okay, the one that I saw the most, I don't think, at least for my experience around that world, what I saw very, very advanced was... something that University of Florence in Italy was doing, they actually have a predicted model for traffic, for things, for example, if there is a football match, they close some streets so they can predict and they can see how traffic, how the public transport goes and so forth.

00:25:20: And they were trying, I think they're trying to expand that model.

00:25:23: This is my experience, maybe London or other they are.

00:25:26: Barcelona

00:25:27: is I think also those prediction

00:25:29: systems for the traffic systems.

00:25:31: And they host one of the biggest of exhibition there as well for the same subject.

00:25:39: And I even heard Santan there is also very very digital.

00:25:42: I'll have a look.

00:25:44: I learned something new.

00:25:44: That's

00:25:45: great.

00:25:45: You can do the digital twin base and I think very, very good.

00:25:50: So it might be a good place for your business.

00:25:52: Yeah,

00:25:54: absolutely.

00:25:54: I mean, it's anything that goes to that direction.

00:25:58: And it's also helping us because we are new.

00:26:01: So I come in from, you said, twenty-five years of Elevator.

00:26:05: I didn't know anything about smart cities and things like that since four years.

00:26:12: Now I'm learning, learning, learning.

00:26:14: keep learning, keep, you know, kind of teaching myself, okay, what's outside, what we can take, how I can learn more.

00:26:22: And I'm not learning more from Elevate, but I'm learning more from those cities, those people that they are starting to make these prediction models and other things.

00:26:40: Alessandro, thank you so much for joining us.

00:26:42: This was the Lifton Leaders podcast, even though we really had great insights into how data digital twins and smart engineering can truly reshape vertical mobility.

00:26:55: This was really interesting.

00:26:56: It's been a pleasure having you here.

00:26:58: Thank you very much for joining us.

00:27:00: Thank you for having me.

00:27:02: Give me the opportunity to actually be interviewed by you.

00:27:05: And it was a lovely conversation.

00:27:10: Thank you and have a good day and the rest of the evening.

00:27:14: Thank you so much.

00:27:15: Goodbye.

00:27:16: Thank you to our listeners.

00:27:17: Thank you.